Comments on: Novel Watch #41: +4.5 pages [107.5 total] http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/ Novel Watch & Reviews of Practically Everything Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:44:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: c1 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-237 c1 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:35:53 +0000 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-237 That's a really good point, Jacob. 3gf: I'm just not sure this infanticide analogy really works. Because it's making the point that you're attached to these scenes as if they were your own babies, but it's also making the point that it's good to kill your babies. Something about that just doesn't seem right... And it's true that Joss incorporates both non-relationship plot-lines with relationships. But even those non-relationships actually all tie back to a way of relating at some point. Serenity, in terms of non-relationships, was about finding an example of a horrible action by the government, and calling out the bad guys. But what it was *really* about was Mal finding something to believe in again, and River processing something that was taking up space in her brain because it had been put there by the bad guys. Both of those things required relationships in order to happen. There's no reason for Mal to try and uncover the secret at the cost of his own life, unless he cares about someone (anyone, really) else in the universe. For River, it's more that what she needs to go through to stay alive can only happen with the support of these other people, who care about her in some way (Simon, Mal...). And what people do in any given scene, whether action-oriented or not, is going to depend on how they relate to the other people in the scene, or in their greater world. Or at least, that's the way *I* see it. :) That’s a really good point, Jacob.

3gf: I’m just not sure this infanticide analogy really works. Because it’s making the point that you’re attached to these scenes as if they were your own babies, but it’s also making the point that it’s good to kill your babies. Something about that just doesn’t seem right…

And it’s true that Joss incorporates both non-relationship plot-lines with relationships. But even those non-relationships actually all tie back to a way of relating at some point. Serenity, in terms of non-relationships, was about finding an example of a horrible action by the government, and calling out the bad guys. But what it was *really* about was Mal finding something to believe in again, and River processing something that was taking up space in her brain because it had been put there by the bad guys. Both of those things required relationships in order to happen. There’s no reason for Mal to try and uncover the secret at the cost of his own life, unless he cares about someone (anyone, really) else in the universe. For River, it’s more that what she needs to go through to stay alive can only happen with the support of these other people, who care about her in some way (Simon, Mal…). And what people do in any given scene, whether action-oriented or not, is going to depend on how they relate to the other people in the scene, or in their greater world. Or at least, that’s the way *I* see it. :)

]]> By: Jacob http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-236 Jacob Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:46:46 +0000 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-236 3GF: I suspect one way to circumvent the problem of "babies you love but love to see die more" is to think what it is, really, about a scene that you like. Is it that you like that she's standing on a mountain under the stars, or is it that she (a) is experiencing a moment of serenity, (b) is gazing at a star-filled sky, (c) is swimming with complex emotions, ..., (z) is a zombie. Then work that into a future scene where it would fit. 3GF: I suspect one way to circumvent the problem of “babies you love but love to see die more” is to think what it is, really, about a scene that you like. Is it that you like that she’s standing on a mountain under the stars, or is it that she (a) is experiencing a moment of serenity, (b) is gazing at a star-filled sky, (c) is swimming with complex emotions, …, (z) is a zombie. Then work that into a future scene where it would fit.

]]> By: 3 Green Fish http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-235 3 Green Fish Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:42:37 +0000 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-235 c1: Well, yeah, I suppose it's true that you can always bring those things back. The point of the metaphor, as I understand it, is more that you can get attached to things for the wrong reasons, and being unwilling to cut something out can be detrimental. The issue is not that you like something and it doesn't fit, it's that it doesn't fit but you're keeping it in because of an irrational affection for it. The whole infanticide thing is just a way to make you sit back and really look at everything -- even the stuff you would have never considered eliminating. In the case of the scene on the plateau, I think it'll probably vanish entirely, but I might have a scene later on that takes place up on the mountain. If it works out the way I envision, then it'll be pretty dramatic and it might work better. The one thing that I haven't quite figured out how to deal with is setting the scenery of the world -- the plateau scene works well for this because Adrianna looks down and sees the village and the trees and the bay and all. I'm not sure what I want to do about that, but hopefully it'll come to me. Not to worry, though, I've been backing up my files every evening, so I have a daily history of previous incarnations of the story if I end up deciding I want to go back and add it back in. I also have a little cullings file from when I did rewriting in part 1. What amazes me about our good friend Mr. W is how he manages to incorporate both heavy duty non-relationship plots in with all the crazy relating that goes on at the same time. Yeesh. How does he do it? c1: Well, yeah, I suppose it’s true that you can always bring those things back. The point of the metaphor, as I understand it, is more that you can get attached to things for the wrong reasons, and being unwilling to cut something out can be detrimental. The issue is not that you like something and it doesn’t fit, it’s that it doesn’t fit but you’re keeping it in because of an irrational affection for it. The whole infanticide thing is just a way to make you sit back and really look at everything — even the stuff you would have never considered eliminating.

In the case of the scene on the plateau, I think it’ll probably vanish entirely, but I might have a scene later on that takes place up on the mountain. If it works out the way I envision, then it’ll be pretty dramatic and it might work better. The one thing that I haven’t quite figured out how to deal with is setting the scenery of the world — the plateau scene works well for this because Adrianna looks down and sees the village and the trees and the bay and all. I’m not sure what I want to do about that, but hopefully it’ll come to me.

Not to worry, though, I’ve been backing up my files every evening, so I have a daily history of previous incarnations of the story if I end up deciding I want to go back and add it back in. I also have a little cullings file from when I did rewriting in part 1.

What amazes me about our good friend Mr. W is how he manages to incorporate both heavy duty non-relationship plots in with all the crazy relating that goes on at the same time. Yeesh. How does he do it?

]]> By: c1 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-234 c1 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:14:49 +0000 http://www.3greenfish.net/2007/10/23/novel-watch-41-45-pages-1075-total/#comment-234 I think the one other thing to remember, is that if you're going to call cutting out scenes "infanticide," then you should also remember that you have the power to bring the baby back to life. The nice thing about stories, or any kind of writing, is that you can cut a whole bunch of things out but save the pieces, so that if there is ever an *appropriate* place to put them, they can go there. Sometimes I do this with grant writing or paper writing - if I've figured out a really great way to say something, but then it turns out it doesn't need to be said in that document, I cut it out and put it into a "stuff cut from writing" document. Most of the time, I don't ever actually go back and use it. But knowing that it will be somewhere makes it a *whole* lot easier to cut in the first place. :) Sort of like what I told you about your iMac - put it in the garage for a while, and when you haven't used it for a year, THEN you can get rid of it. ;) And regarding stories (good ones, at least) being all about the relationships, that's starting to sound a bit like a certain JW we so appreciate... :) I think the one other thing to remember, is that if you’re going to call cutting out scenes “infanticide,” then you should also remember that you have the power to bring the baby back to life. The nice thing about stories, or any kind of writing, is that you can cut a whole bunch of things out but save the pieces, so that if there is ever an *appropriate* place to put them, they can go there. Sometimes I do this with grant writing or paper writing - if I’ve figured out a really great way to say something, but then it turns out it doesn’t need to be said in that document, I cut it out and put it into a “stuff cut from writing” document. Most of the time, I don’t ever actually go back and use it. But knowing that it will be somewhere makes it a *whole* lot easier to cut in the first place. :) Sort of like what I told you about your iMac - put it in the garage for a while, and when you haven’t used it for a year, THEN you can get rid of it. ;)

And regarding stories (good ones, at least) being all about the relationships, that’s starting to sound a bit like a certain JW we so appreciate… :)

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